We have now read the first two speeches of Aeneas. In them Vergil draws a striking contrast between the private image of Aeneas, the man, and the public image of Aeneas, the leader. Discuss how the portrayal of Aeneas differs in the two passages, and how Vergil develops the contrast between Aeneas' public and private life.
Use examples from the Latin to support your assertions! Each student must write at least one comment and one reply, and each submission must contain at least 3 sentences and at least one Latin quote. All entries must be time-stamped by 4:00 PM on Saturday, Oct. 13.
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Though Aeneas is often discouraged in his efforts to found Rome, he makes certain that his crew remain unaware. Aeneas is obviously affected by the hardships that he and his men must endure, as expressed through his first speech, in which he expresses that he would much rather have died on Trojan lands ("mene...campis, ln. 96-97) with honor, instead of suffering on the sea as he does now. Contrarily, however, in addressing his men, Aeneas makes light of such hardships, stating that they have "suffered more serious things" ("O passi graviora", ln. 199), and that god will, eventually, "put an end to these things" ("dabit...finem", ln. 199). He repeatedly tells his men to remain strong- to "recall [their] spirits" and "send away [their] sad fear" (ln. 202)- even though Aeneas himself is just as miserable as they are. As exemplified by his second speech, Aeneas' call to duty far surpasses his own emotions, making him the effective leader that he is.
ReplyDelete(That is, Vergil portrays Aeneas as being privately emotional in the first passage, but shows that he is able to overlook such emotions in favor of fulfilling his duty as a leader in the second.)
I wasn't sure of how this was supposed to be formatted? Hopefully this is acceptable. :)
Wow, Lauren, this is great!
ReplyDeleteAlthough Aeneas is the epic hero, one must be reminded that an epic does not become popular because it illustrates a constant high and mighty leader throughout the plot. Instead, Vergil wants his audience to sympathize with the man behind the heroic persona. Just as any other mere mortal would feel given the circumstances of having "praesentemque...mortem" (line 91) all things threaten instant death for the men, Aeneas is portrayed through his first speech as a frightened mortal; one who instead would choose to "mene...campis" (line 97) die on the Trojan planes than to endure the harsh punishment of the gods (especially Juno).
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, when Aeneas is in front of his crew after enduring the storm, he assumes the role of the epic hero/leader once again. He uplifts the spirits of his men in order to elicit hope not only for his crew, but also for the audience. With so many vivid images of the storm and the perils that the men went through, the audience must be just as exhausted as the characters in the epic. Therefore, when Aeneas speaks in a sympathetic tone, reassuring them that they've basically gone through worse, "O Passi graviora"(line 199) the audience draws the will to carry on as well.
As shown, Vergil creates a contrasting persona of Aeneas; the man behind the heroic persona, and the valiant leader of his crew. By doing so, the reader gains a greater appreciation of Aeneas through the characterization portrayed through his speeches.
[Disregarding the cheese factor obvious in both.]
Pwned 8)
Oh, totally pwned.
ReplyDelete(If we don't stop referencing this "pwned" thing, poor Mrs. Graham is going to start thinking we actually speak like that...very unfortunate)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, my birthday's on Saturday. I will be 18. I expect gifts on Monday, that's ya'lls other homework assignment. ^_^
ReplyDeleteSucks. X_X
Although Aeneas is on the verge of giving, as shown by all of his first speech, during his second speech, he not only moves his men and the reader, but he also moves himself. By saying "O passi graviora... saxa,"(L. 200-201) he compares their plight to that of Odysseus, who under went a very similar journey(very original Virgil) and basically convinces himself, along with everyone else that, since Odysseus could find peace, they can too. He also believes that they can do it, because he already went through the trouble of naming "Latium"(L 205), or heard that he would found it through a prophecy of some sort, and why would he bother naming it if he didn't think that he'd live to see it? That would be a waste of time, and I'm sure he'd much being saying how lucky some dead person or another would be at the moment.
ReplyDeleteBasically, as was said, Aeneas is a whiner in the first speech, but redeems himself(at least somewhat) in the second speech by making such a motivational speech that he even moves himself towards the dim light of hope.
Although Aeneas is supposed to be the leader of the Trojans, we still see that he is very much like one of his men from an emotional standpoint. He shows his vulnerability in the first speech when he says, "Why couldn't I die on the Trojan plains?" (Mene Iliacis...potuisse (ln. 97-98)) which allows us to see that he too struggles with feelings of uncertainty and fear. However in his second speech, we see a completely different side of Aeneas, one that is true to the leader in him. He says to his crew that they have "suffered more serious things" (passi graviora (ln. 199)) and that they will be able to overcome this obstacle. Vergil shows us these two completely different sides of Aeneas in order for us to see that he is not only a strong leader, but he is also human and suffers from fear just like everyone else which is what makes him the person he is.
ReplyDeleteWow. Now that I'm finally on here, eveyone has already left realy good comments that are never said in class- so where did they come from? :)
ReplyDeleteAnyway, now I need something new to comment on...
How about this, no matter what Aeneas does he is ALWAYS emotional. In both of these speeches (though one is despairing and one is hopeful), he uses the same drastic speech. The first starts out "O terque quaterque beati" (O three and four times blessed) (94)and the second "O passi graviora" (O (you) have suffered more seious things) (199). This could be because Vergil wanted to emphasize how important Aeneas's speeches are or to show how important Aeneas THOUGHT they were. Either way, they have the same beginning somber tone which contrasts greatly to the messages they give. Shall we call it ironic? I think so.
hahaha Anna I love your comment : D and you probably don't hear these comments in class because everyone wants to hide how smart they really are...it makes it all so much more mysterious don't you think??
ReplyDeleteWell, seeing as how I'm not entirely sure how we are supposed to reply to each other's assertion I will be positive and so good job to all. The responses were very interesting and insightful.
ReplyDeleteVirgils first two speeches vary greatly in how aeneas is portrayed. in the first speech aeneas is shown in a very mortal sense that he gives way to his emotions of fear and terror. We know this not only because of what he is proclaiming to the gods, but also how he is physically "holding both palms to the stars" (line 93). he portrays himself here as helpless and weak. In contrast, Aeneas's second speech portrays him as an optimist when claiming that him and his crew have "suffered more serious things" (line 199). in conclusion the two speeches balance eachother out in that one shows aeneas human qualities making him relatable while the second speech he portrays himself to be a strong willed leader.
ReplyDeleteand i didnt really read anyone elses posts before i posted mine so if i said something similair to yours im sorry
ReplyDeleteFrom Blair:
ReplyDeleteVirgil uses the two speeches by Aeneas to portray to the audience the two sides of Aeneas, the leader and the man. I the first speech Virgil shows the private side of Aeneas, after all the speech is nothing but a soliloquy, in which the audience is able to see the hurt and sorror Aeneas feels when he thinks of his fallen brethren. When Aeneas exclaims his question of “mene Iliacis occumbere campis non potuisse?” (why was I not able to die on the Trojan fields? (Line 96-97)) Virgil shows Aeneas’s personal feelings of lose and his wish to be dead with his companions in his own country. The second speech made by Aeneas show the leader side of him, in which Aeneas attempts to comfort his men who have survived the wrath of Juno. Aeneas commands his men to “maestumque timorem mittite” (send away your sad fear (Line 202-203)) and tries to warm them with the promise a new “regna Troiae” (kingdom of Troy (Line 206) ) will rise again, Virgil uses these actions to show Aeneas’s capabilities as a leader in commanding and reassuring his men.
From Lindsey:
ReplyDeleteok, here goes...
Aeneas is very emotional in both his speeches, however, I don't think that was exactly Vergil's point. Vergil uses the element of emotion to allow Aeneas' speeches to be very impressing. The difference between the to lies to the contrast for the reasons of emotion. The first speech is very depressing as Aeneas says that he wishes he had died before saying, "O terque quarterque beati/quis ante ora patrum Toriae sub moenibus altis/ contigit oppetere! (line 94-95)." Aeneas' jealousy of the dead is quite emotion, therefore impacting his purpose onto the readers. But in the second speech, Aeneas is much more hopeful to his men, telling them that they have gone through so much more than this, they should not be discouraged, an end will come. The public aspect of these speeches shows Aeneas' appeal to his men when things are hard, he understands their pain. His private side shows his fear and his actual pain because he knows the hardships of life.
The combination of Vergil's impacting emotion elements and Aeneas' appeal to the people while he understnads their pain publiclly and privatly shows Vergil's true portrayal of Aeneas.
Some very insightful comments here. Now consider: why might Vergil have wanted to show the two sides to his hero, the public, optimistic side and the private, despairing side? Besides making Aeneas a character with whom readers can sympathize, what else might Vergil have had in mind when he did this?
ReplyDeletemaybe its to show that people arent always how they portray themselves to be. to show leaders have weaknesses? except i dont know why virgil would do that seeing as he was writing about aeneas referring to augustus... Maybe to show that augustus was a man of the people and that he was a leader but could relate to the people he rules over because he too is human and has human emotions... kind of like dont really hold him accountable for things that normal everyday humans wouldnt be held accountable for
ReplyDeleteFrom Lindsey:
ReplyDeleteOk, first i thought everyone's comments were really good on the first posting; i love everyone's comments on each other's work; it's amusing. and Anna's right, why do we never hear those in class?? ; )
Anyway, for the second comment...
Vergil wants to make Aeneas well rounded and believable, hence the two sides of him being shown to the audience. Secondly, Vergil always looked to Homer and wanted to write like him so everyone else would love him and respect him. So it would make sense that Aeneas sympathizes with his men and gives them hope for brighter days, just as Odysseus did through out his journey. It would just make sense that if there were only one reason for Vergil to portray Aeneas that way, it would be to compare himself to Homer.
(It is actually quite amusing, kinda like fashion trends for ancient writing...: ) )
See ya tomorrow!!
From Blair:
ReplyDeleteTo Lauren's:
Dang... that was really, really good. Well thought out and written, good job.
Wow, I hadn't thought of any of that Homer business. No need to restate, I suppose? At any rate, that was way over my head. :) Lucky for you, Lindsey, I know almost as little about ancient writing as I do fashion trends!
ReplyDeleteI think I'm going to stick to my typical outlook in saying that we are making Virgil far too complicated a man!
He aims to make Aeneas seem human, or "mortal", as Aaron put it, in order to give his audience something to build upon. I mean, it's easier to become interested in something which you can relate to, right? Whether he truly had any of those other things in mind is debatable-but, really, what further reason does he need?
To the second question:
ReplyDeleteWhy might Vergil create a juxtaposition of Aeneas? Well not to make it seem too complicated but maybe Vergil did this because every hero is weak on his or her own terms. Without a group to lead or a public to perform in front of what would the purpose of a hero be? Basically, Vergil might want the people to realize that heroes are everyday people, but only become heroes when there is a specific cause. For instance, Gandhi was a normal man, even a lawyer, but it wasn't until the Europeans decided that they wanted to integrate the Indian race, that he became a leader and hero of civil rights. So maybe he wanted to compare Aeneas to Augustus Caesar, saying that Augustus is a weak man on his own terms, but when he is put in front of the Roman people he is a political hero.
Good job everyone? I agree... since, for the most part, I said the same things..(sorry... forgot to reply, and didn't know when we had to do that by....)
ReplyDelete